If anyone shops for reloading components or custom or surplus ammunition - then you've probably come across Georgia Arms' website. Today, I pull it up and find that they have been notified by D.O.D. regulations that ALL surplus brass is now to be destroyed. Go HERE and see the E-Mail they received from D.O.D.Text of E-Mail is as follows"Effective immediately DOD Surplus, LLC, will be implementing new requirements for mutilation of fired shell casings. The new DRMS requirement calls for DOD Surplus personnel to witness the mutilation of the property and sign the Certificate of Destruction. Mutilation of the property can be done at the DRMO, if permitted by the Government, or it may be mutilated at a site chosen by the buyer. Mutilation means that the property will be destroyed to the extent prevents its reuse or reconstruction. DOD Surplus personnel will determine when property has been sufficiently mutilated to meet the requirements of the Government."
Views: 0
You need to be a member of The Patriots For America to add comments!
Before I start, I really can't say if this is true or not. Here's what I've found today.
I've spent some time looking into this. No official government notice can be found on the web. Lots of speculation and conjecture, but no hard evidence. To me, but this is just a guess, Government Liquidations and DOD Surplus seem to be making their own 'run' on what other sizes of ammo they have. Again, just a guess, but why would they want to take the time to make rounds that most likely will be outlawed? Seems to me they are just looking at the writing on the wall and saying they won't invest in ammo that they soon can't sell and are taking an opportunity to exasperate an already tight ammo supply. There's a lot of money to be had right now in ammo, lots of money.
Until I can see the source in the form of a CFR, bill, law or even a direct letter from Washington, I'll take a wait and see attitude.
This site sights "An agency of the Department of Defense has just directed that all military fired brass must be destroyed." An agency could be anyone who woes business with the DoD. Also note it says "military fired".
Note this site where there are about a dozen or so posts and the argument seems to be going back and fourth about if it's real and or if it's a government action.
Every link I can find comes back to DOD surplus and Government Liquidations. It's huge loop of one site quoting the other, but nothing more. Sit back and take a breather. This might pan out, but as of today it's a wild internet rumor revolving around these two companies and and their online letter.
Tom Gresham did an interview with Larry Haynie over this issue yesterday - If you don't trust either of those gentlemen then you gotta go from there. Below is the 2nd letter that Larry received. It is not the question of whether they'll make ammunition that they won't be able to sell - this is once fired brass that they will no longer provide as suplus purchases. Larry stated that his contract for over 30,000 casings for 5.56, 7.62 and .50 BMG was cancelled. Well, actually he can still buy the brass, just after it's shredded into scrap instead of once fired cases.
Internet rumors abound as to the purpose of this - myself, I see very plainly that shutting off the supply of once fired brass to the civilian market will quite effectively put a massive strain on the already overloaded ammunition market. The rumors, however, are simply what the purpose is. The fact that this has taken place is certainly no rumor.
Dear Valued Customer:
Please take a moment to note important changes set forth by the Defense Logistics Agency:
Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B. As a result and in conjunction with DLA's current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective immediately. This notice also requires SV to immediately cease delivery of any fired munitions that have been recently sold or on active term contracts, unless the material has been mutilated prior to sale or SV personnel can attest to the mutilation after delivery. A certificate of destruction is required in either case.
Thank you,
DOD Surplus
15051 N Kierland Blvd # 300
Scottsdale, AZ 85254
Thank you for your e-mail. The recently implemented mutilation requirement applies to all current and future auctions that contain fired shell casings.
We appreciate your cooperation and understanding in this matter.
Sincerely,
Customer Service Management
Government Liquidation, LLC
DOD Surplus, LLC
15051 N. Kierland Blvd, Ste 300
Scottsdale, AZ 85254
Ph: 480.367.1300
Fax: 480.367.1450
Email: info@govliquidation.com
Online Help:http://www.govliquidation.com/help/index.html
-k-
From what I'm understanding, the DOD has taken word of the HUGE uproar from the Reloading community and is, their words, "Considering issuing a waiver for current brass stockpiles" and then what future actions will be mandated.
So, as for now, my understanding is that there will either be HUGE amounts of brass sitting around waiting on a decision or that current stocks will be shredded and companies will HOPE it's overturned before the next auctions begin.
Well, I hope that this isn't true, because its a sure fire way of making ammo a LOT harder to come by. From my understanding, recycled shells are what supply a large portion of our ammo and if the DOD is forcing this on resellers and retailers, then that can only mean one thing: the Federal Government is accelerating the process of trying to disarm the law-abiding American citizens by cutting short the supply of ammo. If by chance the assault-weapon ban doesn't pass, then they'll at least severely limit the amount of ammo available to the point that it's as valuable if not more valuable than gold. I just hope that these companies refuse...but that's a major long shot.
Everyone start getting ready. Things look like they may be accelerating closer to the point of becoming a police state. Talk is becoming ineffective at holding this back. We're coming upon the midnight hour where our country finally tips off the razors edge. I just pray to God that there are more people at least preparing, if not already prepared for what's to come...
Matt Matlock > ShadowPatriotMarch 16, 2009 at 11:28pm
If it is true - which the Gov Liquidators have confirmed that's the orders they're currently operating under - it will put a HUGE hurt on reloaders for sure. I know that I have been buying once fired LC brass for about 1/3 of what newly manufactured costs and that's even at today's elevated prices. Companies like Black Hills, Ultramax etc. are havens for people buying bulk remanufactured ammo. The companies producing Newly Manufactured Brass are already under an intense strain - try finding .223 Remington, 9mm Luger, .308 Winchester, .45 ACP Brass, it's a crapshoot right now - then all of us guys who have been buying the once fired LC cases are going to start sucking what little is available of the new stuff. The companies don't have much of a choice - Whether this is going through the Salvage/Scrap program or the GovLiq program - either way, with this new reg they have to have a D.O.D. Mutilation Certificate before they can even take possession to sell it.
Long story short - If you have brass - KEEP IT. If you need brass - GET WHAT YOU CAN.
Good information Matt. I've had the night to think about this and I spoke with a gun shop owner today about this. His take is that it doesn't surprise him at all. He said that DoD has wanted to do this for years and that it's their call as it's their property. Nothing has to be done in Washington to either start or stop this program. Obviously a call from Capital Hill can have a lot of influence on the outcome either way.
Do you know if the DoD buy's back reloaded ammo from outside vendors or it all new?
I know what you mean about the shortage of ammo. Try and find .380 Auto in my town... I've tried, you can't get it. The gun shop owner that I spoke to today said he's got $250,000's worth of ammo of all sizes on order and he's been told 'most' of the order will be filled by the end of the year. :-0
Thanks for the nice-toned response. After I posted it I thought it might have come off the wrong way, sparking a problem here. It's all good with me.
Matt Matlock > 0soq11prezp95March 17, 2009 at 11:50am
Hey, no worries man. I don't expect people to believe everything I post - I WANT people to research and find out the truth behind the things I bring up. Very rarely do I post something without having confirmed, as much as possible, beforehand. With this, I saw the same internet arguments but with all the information I gathered and that E-Mail response both to myself and to Larry - it seems rather plain.
I don't believe the D.O.D. programs authorize buying back reloaded ammo - one of the current Military Guys here might have a better idea - but there seems a HUGE liability in having that quantity of reloads pouring onto firing ranges. Hell, some Private Ranges don't even allow reloads - guess they don't trust us that are capable of making our own ammunition. After all, we're just Civilians, what do we know?
And the shortage of ammo - it's not slowing down. I thought it had a couple of weeks ago as I came across some primers and powders that I'd been hunting for for awhile but, turns out, Hodgdon and CCI had just put out a MASSIVE shipment and now they're back to work getting the next one together. It's coming out in spurts - you gotta catch it when you can. I know new manufacture ammo is suffering the same as reloading components - I haven't seen .223 Remington's on the shelves at Academy for probably 6 months now.
Matt Matlock > 0soq11prezp95March 17, 2009 at 12:15pm
That's the problem - We will continue to hear "Call Your Congresscritter" - "Write Letters" - "Be Peaceful" - "Protest but DON'T BREAK ANY LAWS" - Well, when there are over 20,000 Gun Laws ALONE, the system is designed to where you HAVE to break laws. You can't go through a day WITHOUT breaking a law. Now, as I wrote an article about, protests are taking place where people purchase Tea and dump it into a river while trying to observe EVERY law. The entire point to the Boston Tea Party in 1773 was TO break laws. To show that resistance existed and an Illegitimate Government's Laws are NOT to be respected. Again, advocating and preparing are dangerous things to do given that Federal Enforcers abound EVERYWHERE. The time is coming, I believe, where that line MUST be crossed. You can't Protest the Nazis and expect them to stop, Vicki Weaver protested the BATFE and the FBI and see where it got her, David Koresh even tried to WORK WITH BATFE, invited them to tour Mt. Carmel and we see where it got him. Look at Derek Copp in Michigan who just got shot by the Cops for NOTHING. They Storm Troopered his house and put a bullet in his lungs. Look at Oscar Grant who was shot in the back by a BART Cop while he was pinned on the ground and handcuffed. See the video on YouTube HERE
The examples abound and could be listed all day long - The System is put in place, the infrastructure exists and now the legislation is being introduced that will announce the things that are already built (FEMA Camps). Sure, call your Congressman. Write letters. Not a damn thing will change because THEY WANT IT THIS WAY!!! THIS IS ON PURPOSE!!
Replies
I've spent some time looking into this. No official government notice can be found on the web. Lots of speculation and conjecture, but no hard evidence. To me, but this is just a guess, Government Liquidations and DOD Surplus seem to be making their own 'run' on what other sizes of ammo they have. Again, just a guess, but why would they want to take the time to make rounds that most likely will be outlawed? Seems to me they are just looking at the writing on the wall and saying they won't invest in ammo that they soon can't sell and are taking an opportunity to exasperate an already tight ammo supply. There's a lot of money to be had right now in ammo, lots of money.
Until I can see the source in the form of a CFR, bill, law or even a direct letter from Washington, I'll take a wait and see attitude.
Government Liquidation
This site sights "An agency of the Department of Defense has just directed that all military fired brass must be destroyed." An agency could be anyone who woes business with the DoD. Also note it says "military fired".
DOD Surplus, LLC owns Government Liquidation. Government Liquidations is just the store-front for DOD Surplus.
Note this site where there are about a dozen or so posts and the argument seems to be going back and fourth about if it's real and or if it's a government action.
Every link I can find comes back to DOD surplus and Government Liquidations. It's huge loop of one site quoting the other, but nothing more. Sit back and take a breather. This might pan out, but as of today it's a wild internet rumor revolving around these two companies and and their online letter.
Internet rumors abound as to the purpose of this - myself, I see very plainly that shutting off the supply of once fired brass to the civilian market will quite effectively put a massive strain on the already overloaded ammunition market. The rumors, however, are simply what the purpose is. The fact that this has taken place is certainly no rumor.
Dear Valued Customer:
Please take a moment to note important changes set forth by the Defense Logistics Agency:
Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B. As a result and in conjunction with DLA's current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective immediately. This notice also requires SV to immediately cease delivery of any fired munitions that have been recently sold or on active term contracts, unless the material has been mutilated prior to sale or SV personnel can attest to the mutilation after delivery. A certificate of destruction is required in either case.
Thank you,
DOD Surplus
15051 N Kierland Blvd # 300
Scottsdale, AZ 85254
"Hello,
Does this mean that ALL fired brass ammunition cases are to be destroyed?
Do current lots require destruction? ... like this one:
http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2263403&convertTo..."
The response:
Thank you for your e-mail. The recently implemented mutilation requirement applies to all current and future auctions that contain fired shell casings.
We appreciate your cooperation and understanding in this matter.
Sincerely,
Customer Service Management
Government Liquidation, LLC
DOD Surplus, LLC
15051 N. Kierland Blvd, Ste 300
Scottsdale, AZ 85254
Ph: 480.367.1300
Fax: 480.367.1450
Email: info@govliquidation.com
Online Help:http://www.govliquidation.com/help/index.html
-k-
From what I'm understanding, the DOD has taken word of the HUGE uproar from the Reloading community and is, their words, "Considering issuing a waiver for current brass stockpiles" and then what future actions will be mandated.
So, as for now, my understanding is that there will either be HUGE amounts of brass sitting around waiting on a decision or that current stocks will be shredded and companies will HOPE it's overturned before the next auctions begin.
Everyone start getting ready. Things look like they may be accelerating closer to the point of becoming a police state. Talk is becoming ineffective at holding this back. We're coming upon the midnight hour where our country finally tips off the razors edge. I just pray to God that there are more people at least preparing, if not already prepared for what's to come...
Long story short - If you have brass - KEEP IT. If you need brass - GET WHAT YOU CAN.
Do you know if the DoD buy's back reloaded ammo from outside vendors or it all new?
I know what you mean about the shortage of ammo. Try and find .380 Auto in my town... I've tried, you can't get it. The gun shop owner that I spoke to today said he's got $250,000's worth of ammo of all sizes on order and he's been told 'most' of the order will be filled by the end of the year. :-0
Thanks for the nice-toned response. After I posted it I thought it might have come off the wrong way, sparking a problem here. It's all good with me.
I don't believe the D.O.D. programs authorize buying back reloaded ammo - one of the current Military Guys here might have a better idea - but there seems a HUGE liability in having that quantity of reloads pouring onto firing ranges. Hell, some Private Ranges don't even allow reloads - guess they don't trust us that are capable of making our own ammunition. After all, we're just Civilians, what do we know?
And the shortage of ammo - it's not slowing down. I thought it had a couple of weeks ago as I came across some primers and powders that I'd been hunting for for awhile but, turns out, Hodgdon and CCI had just put out a MASSIVE shipment and now they're back to work getting the next one together. It's coming out in spurts - you gotta catch it when you can. I know new manufacture ammo is suffering the same as reloading components - I haven't seen .223 Remington's on the shelves at Academy for probably 6 months now.
The examples abound and could be listed all day long - The System is put in place, the infrastructure exists and now the legislation is being introduced that will announce the things that are already built (FEMA Camps). Sure, call your Congressman. Write letters. Not a damn thing will change because THEY WANT IT THIS WAY!!! THIS IS ON PURPOSE!!