Posted: 09 Mar 2012 06:34 PM PST
AWHILE BACK, in an article entitled, What Would Happen?, I challenged you to think past our biggest barrier to a time when the majority of people in free nations understood the disturbing nature of Islamic doctrine. Once that happens, then what? What would we do? What laws would be passed? How would our national policies change?
The idea was to clarify where we're going, because this could lay the groundwork for how we are proceeding at the moment. What are we aiming at? What needs to be changed once the political will exists to do it?
One of the best answers was the very first one, by Damien. He wrote:
For one thing, it would be much harder for the stealth jihad to operate. In fact it would be almost impossible, and that's why Jihadists don't want non-Muslims to know about these things, (at least the smarter ones anyway).
Also, it would make it almost impossible for Islam to gain new converts, because people in general wouldn't want to be part of a religion that encourages hatred for anyone who doesn't blindly accept it, including their friends and family. It would also make it harder for them believe Muhammad was a good person, or that books like the Koran are the inspired word of God. That alone would make the religion much less appealing to people who were not born into it.
As far as foreign policy, almost no non-Muslim would support endorsing constitutions that recognize sharia law, unless they somehow thought that they could take advantage of an Islamic dictatorship somehow, despite what they knew. But the idea that sharia or Islam is compatible with democratic government would be unthinkable.
The only downside might be that some heterodox Muslims as you call them, (liberal secularized Muslims as I've called them) might be more likely to be wrongfully attacked. Of course, in such a world it might be much harder for them to stay Muslims, if everyone else around them knew the truth about what their religious texts actually teach.
As for exactly what new policies would be enacted, I'm not sure, but the answer would largely depend on how long most of the non-Muslims knew this. If they had known this for well over a hundred years or more, much of what's going on right now wouldn't even be happening, so some of the policies you might think of wouldn't be necessary at all.
If, on the other hand, all other non-Muslims just found out today, it would be a different story.
Another frequent commenter, Ben, wrote: At best, we can hope for immigration bans, stepped up surveillance and constitutional action to prevent imposition of Shari'ah.
Kingsley Beattie emailed this comment: It could result in termination of all unnecessary contacts with Muslims, and Islamic nations and societies. Islamic schools and mosques could be made illegal and closed. Diplomatic and commercial exchanges could be restricted to neutral territory. Muslims living in Dar al Harb could be "encouraged" to migrate to Dar al Islam. In other words the kaffir would strive to establish reciprocity with the Islamic heartland, Saudi Arabia.
Someone emailed this comment: What would happen? Islam would lose its status as a religion. I have always felt that if a movie showing the true life of Muhammad were to be made and shown around the world, that would mean the end of Islam as a religion.
Someone emailed this: What if everyone knew that political action to establish Sharia law is a religious duty for all able-bodied Muslims? Then there would be a national Sharia ban in place. Unlike Jewish or Ecclesiastical law, Sharia seeks to undermine and overthrow secular state law.
As such, all its supporters should be treated as enemies, stripped of citizenship, and deported to Saudi Arabia.
The same person also said: What do I think would happen? We would have a strong sense of community identification as non-Muslims.
Then I asked the same question in a different way: Right now it seems clear that very little can be done politically without more people knowing more about Islam, or at least making fewer mistaken assumptions about Islam. It will probably never happen that "everybody" knows about Islam, and it isn't even necessary.
But the question is, "Then what?"
Then what will we do? What do you envision as our next steps? If someone became president who had a great deal of popular support and who knew all about Islam's prime directive, what do you think she or he would do?
Damien stepped in again with this: If someone who knew all about Islam's prime directive become president, what would he or she do? I can't tell you exactly what he or she would do because I'm not that person, but if I were, I can tell you what I would do.
I would try to enact laws that would at the very least put severe restrictions on immigration from Islamic countries to America, at least until those societies voluntarily abandon Jihad and Sharia, and I would encourage other western leaders to do the same. Plus I would argue that Turkey should not be allowed into the EU.
In addition to that I would try to convince congress to actually enforce our current immigration laws and tighten border security so it would be harder for terrorists to sneak in. I would get either the National Security Agency or some other secret government organization to monitor mosques in this country.
Technically Islam is a religion, so I don't see how we could realistically say it was not, but we don't have to deny that Islam is a religion to do what needs to be done. Unlike what a lot of people think, religions are not inherently benign. Many of the religions in South America prior to Columbus practiced ritualized murder to appease their gods, for example.
Remember that the constitution is not a suicide pact. Besides, your right to swing your fist ends where my face begins. I don't think the Founding Fathers intended freedom of religion to include violating other people's rights based on your religion. They also would have found the idea that people have a right to try to use their religion to commit treason against a legitimate, democratically elected government to be absurd.
In addition, I would encourage schools to adopt non-politically-correct text books that devote at least one chapter to the early and later history of Islam. Ones that were not filled with pro-Islam propaganda and don't leave important things out just because Muslims complain.
I would demand that any group that receives money from Saudi Arabia or any other Islamic state register under the foreign agents act. (At least I think that's what its called.)
Speaking of the Constitution, I would try to get an amendment passed that would forbid judges from considering foreign law, including Sharia, when it came to deciding constitutional matters. I know that we already have the First Amendment that forbids the state from officially recognizing a religion, or enacting purely religious laws, but it would make it harder for U.S judges to justify even considering Sharia, for politically correct reasons. I would also argue that we should pass the anti-foreign law, anti-sharia amendment to reinforce what's already in the First Amendment.
I would do everything in my power, including war if necessary, to eliminate the Jihadist threat, with the ultimate goal of sending them the message that their attempts to destroy us and/or subjugate us are futile.
I can think of more, much more. Citizen Warrior, what would you do if you were president of the United States knowing what you know?
I wrote: I really like your answer, Damien. And my answer would be very similar. If I were president, curbing Muslim immigration would be my first move, too. And making the borders secure.
And I would begin a program that would ongoingly monitor mosques in America. Those found to promote jihad would be shut down. Those imams promoting jihad would be arrested for sedition or deported. I would do the same with Islamic schools in the U.S.
I would instigate a national law similar to what Louisiana and Oklahoma have done that explicitly outlaws Sharia.
I would order the investigation of history textbooks and remove those that have falsely whitewashed Islam's image. And I would call for textbooks that taught an accurate and detailed history of Islam and the Crusades.
I would immediately encourage, in every way possible, to end oil's status as a strategic commodity, and encourage all other countries to do the same.
I would stop all foreign investments in this country for mosques or madrassas. I would allow U.S. security agents to call our enemies by their accurate names. I would stop Muslims from being able to come to America to be educated. I would stop allowing visas for imams to come here from Muslim countries. I would prevent foreign Muslims from donating to colleges here in the U.S.
All Muslim chaplins in prisons and the military would be monitored and any hint of jihad or Sharia would disqualify them. And then I would get a good night's sleep because that first day in office was a long one!
I also asked the question on a Citizen Warrior Facebook post, and got quite a few more responses. One woman wrote: Let women know especially how all the freedoms we take for granted would be ripped away under sharia law. Females become non-persons and property. Any decision that has to be made about a woman will be made by a man. The koran urges every man to take 4 wives. Polygamy is outlawed in the US but our government is turning a blind eye to everything muslim to the point of allowing muslims to break our laws. When in Rome, so muslims who come to the US (and immigration to the US from muslim countries should be outlawed as they do not assimilate into our society and have no intention of living by our rules and laws) have to abide by our way of life. We will NOT accommodate them and their culture.
For the most part, I wasn't getting the kind of answers I was looking for — people seemed focused on the impossiblity of getting people to understand the danger of Islam. So I clarified the question: Let's imagine that somehow it happened. I'm sure at some point it would have seemed impossible for people to stop smoking, and yet our whole culture's orientation to tobacco has changed in my lifetime, from something totally acceptable and commonplace to something that is banned in more and more places and done by fewer and fewer people.
So imagine that a huge change like that happened to a majority of people in the free world. Somehow a majority of people really understood what Islamic doctrine is all about. What kinds of policies would we vote in? What kinds of new laws would we make? What do you think we would do once we all knew about it?
Someone wrote: In my opinion I see Islamic doctrine in the same way I view slavery. The laws wouldn't be able to paint the doctrine with a broad brush, but by taking parts of it and dealing with them individually. What CAIR is trying to do is make this a religious issue and that we also have to accept it because of free speech. Therefore sharia should be allowed because it is a religious belief. That is how we have to attack it. We don't allow sharia because it is against the laws and Constitution of this country, regardless of their religious beliefs.
Someone else wrote: The biggest problem we face is that there are too many of them in this country. Who would pay to deport them all? We would first have to say we do not recognize Islam as a religion. We would take away their tax exempt status. We would use undercover people to monitor what is going on inside mosques and what is being taught there. Any mention of terrorism would be closely watched. Sharia law in ANY form would NOT be tolerated. We would not allow ANY type of worship by them in our schools. No Muslim would be permitted to be employed or do volunteer work in any state, Federal or local governments.
Someone else wrote: I think if everyone knew the truth about Islam they would not bow down to it and would not appease those extremists who throw temper tantrums to get their way. They would not let Islam creep into their judicial systems and social systems the way it is, just like a cancer, starting slowly but over time taking over and destroying. They would put a stop to it eradicate it!
Someone else wrote: It would have a profound affect on the behavior of Muslims. If the West would stand up to Islam and lose the politically correct facade, I think that many would leave Islam. They are held hostage, so to speak, by their fear of being persecuted or harmed for apostasy. If we can convince them that we are not a bunch of pussies and offer protection, they would leave in droves.
Someone else wrote: Immigration reform regarding Islamic countries should be the 1st thing after outlawing political correctness. We should find some way to make allowances for true asylum seekers. They do exist. They need to end the student/clerical visa "exchanges", especially since they do not vet them well & there is no "exchange" of other religious clerics to them, just reception of them to us.
Get the Supreme Court to rule definitively that Sharia Law is totally impermissible in American courts, period. Also, that there are no laws to give Islam protected status either. It should not be exempt from critical examination any more than any belief system should be. There should be no thought-police-type crime laws for Islam either. (I am not a believer in "hate crimes" laws, I believe ALL crimes deserve the same treatment, regardless of who/what the victim is or the motivation of the perpetrator, murder is murder — whether the perp hates me or not, I'm still dead!)
Also, do not allow fawning presentations in history classes for Islam without even mentioning the dark side. I know all about how many of the educators feel about the dark periods of Christianity but, according to some of them, they did NOTHING right & Islamic countries were the perfect, just, tolerant societies. Balance & truth, no need to sugarcoat.
Someone else wrote: We are going to have to outlaw islam as a religion first. This way, they don't get to run and seek protection under our own religious persecution laws. Is anyone aware that this is what they are doing? Using our own laws against us. Islam=nazi's. Same thing.
Someone else wrote: We would demand a loyalty oath as a condition to stay in this country. If they cannot swear allegiance to our Constitution, before anything else, they will be deported. Immigration is going to be what bites us on the ass. The second generation will be the problem.
Someone else wrote: A Palestinian immigrant I know told me she lied when taking the oath to become an American citizen.
If people knew the truth about Islam, they (some wouldn't care one way or the other because they're too apathetic/distracted) would want laws stopping all Muslims from immigrating to the US and demand all construction of mosques be halted.
Also, if the truth were accepted, then Islam might possibly be considered seditious, but since communist doctrine seems to be tolerated under freedom of speech, I won't hold my breath.
Also, every time there's an article in my local rag or on the news regarding terrorism, it tilts in the direction of the 'hijacking' of a peaceful religion and they always have 'professors from coast to coast telling the interviewer jihad really means "inner struggle" and the same tired mantra, "islam is peaceful."
Even if the majority of muslims in the West want to live sharia-free, the dedicated agitators promoting Islam's political advancement are organized and focused. I liken it to the mafia where you have a small number of people willing to be violent to intimidate the majority to maintain control and power.
Martel Sobieskey (an occasional contributor to Citizen Warrior) sent me a section of an interchange he had with someone else, and it was along the lines of our conversation here, I'm including. The other person sent Sobieskey an article. And Sobieskey responded:
This is a very excellent and insightful article exposing the Islamic invasion. My highest respect, appreciation and admiration for your wisdom in this regard. Like a wise physician you have accurately diagnosed the "patients illness" Now we need the cures, the remedies.
What remedies do you prescribe to cure the patient?
The other person responded:
Martel, Thanks for the complement, As for the remedies:
1. First, we must awaken more Americans to the nature of the illness. ACT! for America and its chapters are pushing this forward. I think the Report of Team "B"II - Shariah, the Threat to America may be an effective tool. Hope you've read it. I understand it is going to be distributed to members of Congress, and major movers and players in our government, education, and the judiciary. Tragically, it seems that it has taken major terrorist acts inside the U.S., like the Ft. Hood massacre, to wake Americans up. Maybe we are simply going to need to have more 9/11s as horrible as that may seem.
2. Once we gotten enough voters awakened, then there are many things that can and must be done, such as:
Ending the State Department's Refugee Resettlement Program's ability to bring Muslims here as
refugees from Muslim terror.
No more religious visas for Imams to come and fundamentalize our secular Muslims.
Curtail Muslim immigration.
Seal our borders
Stop educating Muslim students from abroad — especially in sensitive technologies.
End welfare benefits to non-citizens and illegals — particularly Muslims.
No aid-to-dependent Muslim moms. Make them prove they are/were legally married
in registered monogamous marriages.
Excise the political ideologies out of Islam here in the U.S.
Forbid Shariah as Oklahoma recently did.
Stop caving in to Muslim demands for "accommodations" of any type.
Stop allowing U.S. universities/colleges from accept grants or endowments from Muslim countries.
Monitor activities in all U.S. mosques.
End the construction of new mosques in the U.S.
Stop providing Muslim chaplains in our prisons and armed forces.
Stop allowing and funding Muslim Student Associations/groups on our campuses.
Locate and deport Muslims who are not here illegally.
Amend our Constitution, if necessary, to declare Islam a seditious alien ideology, outlawed in
the U.S. and ineligible for First Amendment protection.
End tax-exempt status for Muslim organizations.
Forbid Muslims from holding elective office.
Well, there's a few for starters.
Then Martel Sobieskey wrote this response:
1. I have very little confidence that the majority of Americans will ever awaken as you state in your item #1. My reasoning is based upon the fact that since 9/11 Islam has made enormous progress and America has only done a little ineffective chat. Basically Americans remain paralyzed because it has wrongfully called Islam a religion and this is suicidal.
2. I believe the attack against Sharia is flawed because it implies that there is an Islam independent of Sharia and therefore leaves us stuck in the same split between moderate and militant. Now you will have Islamic deception that good Muslims do not want Sharia but the bad Muslims want Sharia.
3. My opinion is that our efforts should be against Islam in general by telling the truth that Islam in a counterfeit religion as stated in my article Islam's Invasion Ideology and that failing to do so means our gradual demise.
4. What's wrong with telling the truth about Islam that it is a fake and a fraud and not a genuine religion? I guess we could say that a cat is religious because it is so quiet and contemplative as it stalks a mouse.
5. When Islam prays five times a day, it is to kill and destroy all religions and nations worldwide. One should not be fooled by their pious demeanor. There have been several serial killers who had pious and holy demeanors. This is the case with Islam — it puts on the pious facade in order to deceive and kill its prey.
6. Our discussion here is more than theoretical because it can be verified by facts on the ground and the blood in the streets as time goes on. The most obvious strategic fact is the enormous progress Islam has made since 9/11.
7. Here we are talking about Sharia which is an obvious and egregious hate crime against all humanity. The very fact that we are discussing with such trepidation and timidity this far after 9/11 foretells our failure. We have become lost in a malaise of disconnected idealism avoiding the strategic realities.
8. Why don't these anti-Sharia efforts attack Islam head on? It shows that they do not have a strategic understanding of the situation, but remain locked in a discussion of hair-splitting idealism of a college classroom. Islam is defeating us strategically while we have our college classroom discussions about Sharia and court battles about Sharia. All the while Muslim immigrants build their enclaves and practice Sharia on the sly while their invasion ramps up and continues unabated.
Replies
These are all very good ideas and tactics. However, when it comes right down to it, history has started to repeat itself and the ultimate recourse is to play "Cowboys and Muslims".
Granted, some muslims have moved away from their centers of religion, both physically and spiritually, but they all head back to famliar practices whenever under stress or faced with an unfamiliar situation. Generations of following specific thought patterns, combined with close familial alignments via marriages, predetermine where their ultimate allegiances will lie.
You can take the muslim out of Mecca; but you can't take Mecca out of the muslim. So it is round two of Crusaders vs Muslims, or , like Yogi Berra said, "It is deja vu all over again."..
Stingray: "... how do you UNTEACH a 'religious' belief?" For those who are mired in dogma it is all but impossible. They are, realistically, a write off. For others, who are aware enough to question the dogma, by TEACHING them to THINK for themselves.
Until further notice any muslim is my sworn enemy. It is because of their secrecy that I hold this view. They certainly see everyone in the U.S. as their sworn enemy.We are but infidels in their eyes. To overcome any doubt by 100% we have to assume every muslim is a terrorist. We can't afford not to. Like I said until further notice......
By the way we need to somehow get the ear of our military and find out what their intentions will be if there is an uprising against the bat eared fu*ks administration.
Shria Law is incompatible with our Constitutional Republican form of government. Terrorists, when caught should have a speedy trial and if found guilty - electrocuted at once. It cost about 40 to $45,000.oo per year to house, feed and clothe an inmate. Then a verdict of "guilty" should bring immediate action. No Muslim should ever become a legislator nor president. It would be like trying to fit the left shoe on the right foot - only with more devastating consequences. Dealing with an army of baboons would be easier than dealing with a platoon of muslims. The baboons would be more merciful. In one way or another, all islamics are complicit. A muslim presence in a nation is an on-going death threat. The "pale horse" of Revelation is actually a "Chloros (green) horse, the color Mohamet favored most and the color on most islamic flags. Death follows the "green horse." This is an apt description of what follows islam.
All I can say is someone better pay strict attention to Martel Sobiesky's remarks. Not only are we paralyzed regarding our Islamic/Shariah observations and antidotes, but the majority of Americans are oblivious to the rapid disintegration of the U.S. Constitution and its affiliated rights, the arrogant power grabs of the Executive Branch, the unabated violent and Un-American conduct of Union Groups,the gross timidity and cowardice of the U.S. Senate and House to perform their duties as directed by the Constitution and on and on. Initially I would like to reflect on the Islamic situation. All the aforementioned suggestions,observations, and comments previously offered are accurate, effectively articulated, and well grounded. However, I would like to add one more dimension that has been discussed for a good many years and there appears to be no abatement in it's overall objective, that being "PRISLAM" Several articles,studies have appeared in recent years and well before Muslim Shariah Law ever was discussed. In a nutshell, they primarily dealt with the fact that our Prison Systems Federal,State, and Local have for years been a virtual breeding ground for the indoctrination,education, and uninhibited distribution of Jihadist Islam and Terrorist philosophy and practice. This is a far cry from the methodical,sometimes tedious indoctrination of juveniles,young people and students. Here we have a seedbed of individuals all ready pre-disposed to violence and aggression in many cases, and then encapsulate those traits in an alleged, religious related aura of right-mindedness and historical ideology and in a blink of an eye you have the perfect Islamic Jihad Perpetrator with sociopathic underpinnings.,just waiting to get out and practice his skills on the very Society that incarcerated him. The Perfect Storm ,Smoke and Mirrors at their best. As I indicated this trend has been prevalent an undiminished for years and we treat it the same way as our nation and alleged leaders do now, with indifference, apathy, collusion in some cases. The U.S. Army Jihadist Psychiatric Terrorist at Fort Hood is no different than the Islamic Prison Chaplain, who goes about his business daily, indoctrinating the prisoners with the beauty of Islam and the sickening methods by which that sacred Religion is thrust upon its unsuspecting hosts. Then the Chaplains multiple disciples spread the word to the other prisoners and the beat goes on. As I indicated earlier, this is but one dimension of occluded indifference and apathy that summarily afflicts our country right now. Six thousand of us or so belong to Patriots of America because we seek ideas and the strength of each other to formulate some kind of effective, intrinsic, power by which to save this country that has given us and others the opportunities no other country on this Planet could. I will guarantee that the majority of our six thousand belong to Tea Parties and/or other Constitutionally grounded groups that incrementally fight the same battle of what used to be WE THE PEOPLE. But we're losing folks. In the last 90 days over 5000 Business strangling regulations have been issued. Haven't heard much from the Czars lately,Eh! Thats because they have been burning the Midnight Oil authoring those 5000 regulations. Churches are being foreclosed upon at an alarming rate. Religious Freedom is attacked and mocked openly. Union backed Occupy WallStreet groups display their intimidation and thuggery at will and a vile, corrupt, partisan main stream media reports nothing. We have our work cut out for us. However, let me caution you on one thing. We are late,very,very late on being where we should be at to pushback these multiple threats that face us. Observation of valid facts and and healthy debates on same are certainly honorable tenets of our American heritage, however, based on the present state of affairs in this country, perhaps a call to action irrespective of personal harm or risk may be more appropriate. The Founding Fathers must have thought so or I wouldn't be writing this today!
The most practical thing I can think to do is to make an all out effort to elect conservative candidates for the House, Senate, Judicial branch and Presidency. I spent this morning walking a precinct and giving out information about the sole Republican challenger to a long held Democrat member of congress. We need a million man army of conservatives to do the grassroots work. I also want to mention Brigitte Gabriel's ACT for America. They are doing fantastic work educating the public about the true nature of Islam. Brigitte is a Lebanese Christian who had to flee for her life when the Muslims were taking control of the country. Please take a look at her work.
http://www.actforamerica.org/
Don't forget to vote for judges who uphold the constitution, I used to just vote for whoever was on the ballot because I had no idea where they were ideologically, but this time I'm making sure who holds traditional values.
So I guess, until the militias and other supposedly all American groups. Actually want to DO something about the Muslim threat. Instead of playing with their guns and acting macho. I guess we will not see anything being DONE about it. Because we're not going to see these liberal, on the take politicians DO anything about it either! These sorry republican wimpy presidential candidates. Would rather see infighting, letting obummer win again! Than DO something to save this nation! I've read that God lets what ever happens to a nation, happen. Exactly what it deserves! So all of this is being done. Because of all of you effeminates is causing all this to happen! Does anyone have a web sight to log on to. That us real patriots can come against these Muslim Maggots. And take OUR country back?! Or we won't have a country to take back, come election time! Let's stand with Sheriff Arpaio in Arizona! Stand up and FIGHT or lay down and DIE! Larry
I was reading through this post and it brought something to mind. When I was very young, back in the 1950's, many of my relatives where coming to America (the legal way). Unfortunately for some, if they were registered with the Communist Party or any of that ilk, they were denied. Back in 1986 and again in 2000, I visited those relatives who remained in Italy. Both times I was surprised at some of them who still hated America and Americans because of our fight against Facism, Communism and Nazism. My godmother's nephew came to me during my second visit and stated: My father and I were coming to America. We had our tickets, our passports and the day arrived. We went to the airport and were stopped. We could not get on the plane because we were registered Communists. This is what is in our immigration laws which have not been followed since the days of my youth. I blame it on the revolution of the sixties and early seventies... the days of Bill Ayers Weatherman Underground. Now today, we allow people who hate us more than the communists did at one time. People who don't give a second thought to the killing of their own family members. We must begin to follow our laws and stop the entry of anyone until this country gains sense once again.
So Twana, I guess it's gonna be this ol' disabled vet to have the balls to DO something! Turn me on to who or what I can do! Since none of these sissies WILL do anything! Our younger Americans and the ones who would but can't deserve someone who WILL! And we call these useless wimps in government leaders? Shows how far DOWN this country has gone! Thanks for your HELP Twana! Wish there were others like you! May God Bless this Great Country! Larry
I am going to let God deal Muslims. Let the law deal with Law breakers. I am required to love my neighbor as I love myself. There is not a Love clause if one is of a different faith. If we accept truths as they are presented to us in the Bible then we must live by them, or chose sin.
This does not mean we lay down. It does mean however that we live up to what we preach!
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