Constitutional Emergency

I received the following.......what are your thoughts??

Col.,

Some of my friends are using the flag concept to express our distress. One flies his flag upside down, another uses don't tread on me.

I think we need to unify the signal, a particular flag that is similar to do not tread, but says do not tread on Christians. It is past time that we show that Christians are not wimps, and the straw has broken the camel's back.

We need design ideas, a manufacturer, and a strong promotion. A flag to represent the Constitution as written, A flag to wave above the Stars and Stripes until the Constitution has been restored.

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In all due respect - we're not all Christian Soldiers. We are Americans.
It is my understanding that we are organized here to fight for The Constitution of the United States, which is an entirely secular document.

I am not here to argue whether or not the Founders based this Nation on Christian principles or whether Christian Principles would lead to a better life for all.

In truth, Common Law is the basis of our law and it is an outshoot of entirely secular principles. Thomas Jefferson derailed Justice Joseph Story for his contention that Common Law was based on Christianity due to the historical fact that Common Law existed within Anglo-Saxon cultures centuries before they were exposed to Christianity.

I am not arguing that our Culture, our Founders themselves or any other mention of societal aspects are not based on or centered in Christianity. However, it is easy and correct to claim that this Government is not, never has been and should not be based on any religious ideology. That is the exact point of this Constitutional Republic, so that all may live freely under it.

So my main point here is, if we are to unite and join people together in a force to fight for Constitutional Principles, then basing that fight on ANY faith is a mistake. A Revolution by "Christian Warriors" to replace the Government is no different than what happened by the Bolsheviks, overthrowing one illegitimate Government for the rule of another. What we're here for is to replace an Illegitimate Tyrannical Governing Force back under the rule of Constitutional Law - not the beliefs of some. Am I correct in that or am I missing something about this organization?
"but in a FREE SOCIETY, everyone has a RIGHT to express what they think about ANY SUBJECT, agree??"

Hell yes I agree - What I was getting at with all of this is the placement of a religious specific symbol on any flag that's used in this cause. For the reasons I stated, I see that as a divisive move and not one that would unite a people under the same cause.

Not directed at anything so far as your ability to speak of and practice your religion - wholly based on the discussion at hand, which is the "Resistance Flag". So, as I am able to do in a free society, I expressed my opinions that the designation of any particular religion, especially with what may become the representative symbol of this fight itself, may well prove to be a mistake.
Well, the original flag they fought under, before they rebelled, was the British Flag which has a state religion.

I'd take the Don't Tread on Me Symbol on anything - As I said, I fly the Gonzales "Come and Take It" flag at my home, being a home grown Texas Boy and all.

And yes, you are absolutely right. There is no fixing the system with the system. Ain't gonna happen, trying to do it is just gonna expose you to the enemy even more while wasting precious preparation time.

As far as getting our rights FROM the Constitution, one thing I've explained to countless many people, that seems to make at least a little impact, is where rights come from. What do I have rights to and what don't I? The answer is simple, property. If I own it, I can do whatever the hell I want to with it so long as it doesn't infringe on another's property and therefore rights. I have the RIGHT to keep and bear arms because it is an extension of my RIGHT to protect my privately owned property, e.g. MY BODY. Government knows this as well, hence Social Security Numbers giving them partial rights to you, Manufacturers Statement of Origin for your car residing with the state, giving their partial ownership (That's what automobile registration is for, paying for their portion), The Government's elimination of Allodial Title's for land, therefore keeping ownership of what's underneath your Real Estate and allowing "Eminent Domain" and property taxes.

These concepts are being used against us everyday by the same people who are meant to SERVE us. Oh yes, I'm in complete agreement. The entire system and all of its agents are now declared enemies unless they proclaim their allegiance to The Constitution of the United States and its master, The People.
Matt. - you are right on target. If we unite and save the Constitution, everyone (I believe) will be able to chose whichever religion they prefer. The Constitution speaks for itself in that we have "freedom of religion" - not "freedom from religion". ....
"The Constitution speaks for itself" - You're right as long as that's said to reasonable, intelligent and FREE People. Unfortunately, it seems all too present that both those who wish to be the slaves and those who wish to be the masters do not think the Constitution speaks for itself. Those who wish to be masters believe THEY speak for the Constitution and that is believed by those who are willing to be slaves.

So, what's comes when those truths exist? People who wish to be neither and are willing to FIGHT, by ANY means necessary, to allow the Constitution to speak for itself. And, with that, here we are.
Not sure about the organization myself... but please let me give my remarks on your comment, "However, it is easy and correct to claim that this Government is not, never has been and should not be based on any religious ideology. That is the exact point of this Constitutional Republic, so that all may live freely under it."

Please forgive but your comment is wholly incorrect. You offer soundbites which are politically correct but are not specific, and therefore not useful.

Which government? Feds or states? We must know what we are talking about.

You need to read the constitutions of the original states, theirs was the authority to deal with religion separately. The reason the Federal government was limited and was to have nothing to do with religion was because the States ("Nations" as the founders used the term), were separately sovereign and each of the 13 original had carefully stated requirements for their elected officials which were not just moral in character, but religious, very religious. Read them if you dare and be shocked.

We are talking history which our modern educational and media institutions are unwilling to "expose" or deal with. (I know I taught history and US Government and came to see how flagrant historical revisionism had become.)

The state Constitutions were changed at the Civil War, but we are talking about history here, original intent and the core character that established the Federal Constitution, the U.S. Constitution, not the States Constitutions. If you want I will post quotes from EACH of the States Constitutions that demonstrate the "vile" nature of religious requirements elected officials needed to have demonstrated publically. and confession was not enough, the practice of regular church attendance, at for instance a protestant Bible church, had to be established publically prior to the nomination of an official.

By the way, you may not realize it but the Declaration of Independence itself, signed by many great men, Jeffereson included, not only mentions that we have a wise sentient Creator God, but mentions that Supreme God three separate times, at the beginning, in the middle and at the end. It identifies Him in three roles, from which we may, with little difficulty, see the basis for our three branches of Government. Of course one must actually read the Declaration for himself to notice this.

The reason I am writing is because true and lasting morals for a government must be based on an external reference point, not some subjective whim or an individual or corporate group (deomcracy - which America is not, and which Jefferson hated). Apart from a document by which all agree to particular morals our politicians can live according to their internal reference point, whatever, or from whereever it is derived. The problem with this is that evolution offers no external reference point, whereas a religion does. Hence the constitution established clear and simple limited government.

But the Constitution was not whimsical. It too was based on the book of law of the day, the Bible. I am opposed to Sharia law (having studied the Qu'ran and discussed Islam with many Muslims), because in many ways, as an external reference point, it utterly contradicts both the spirit as well as the morals our country was based on in the Holy Bible.

Okay so there is my little shpeal and here my conclusion: Constitutional principles are both moral and founded on the external reference point of our founders, which was anti-evolutionary and biased toward the idea of a God who is Creator, Legislator and Judge and who will hold us responsible some day for our words and deeds. The Bible was regarded as a "holy" (unique and inspired) book by them and almost every president, until the current one, which we have ever elected also maintained that to govern in America apart from the Bible was folly.

That is history and easily established fact. Try googling, if you do not have a library for yourself that consists of both sides of the story. Have a good day. Thanks for listening and thinking. Roy
"However, it is easy and correct to claim that this Government is not, never has been and should not be based on any religious ideology. That is the exact point of this Constitutional Republic, so that all may live freely under it."

Does that speak of the State Governments? No, it is in regards to the Constitution - which is what this group is based in support of. 10th Amendment - the states should be able to enact whichever laws are not given to or denied to the FedGov by the Constitution. My comment is in regards to the Federal Government - The Constitution makes NO reference to God but DOES strictly prohibit the ability for Congress to pass any law in regards to "an establishment of Religion". State Government's were not part of that comment.

You'll notice also that the CONTEXT in which my statement was made was in regards to a Christian Flag as our symbol and the respecting of ONE religion. I know of 5 instances in the Declaration of Independence where recognition of a Creator or Supreme Being are discussed. I have read our Declaration, thank you. However, the Declaration is NOT the basis of our Government. It is the emotional Declaration of why we are going to establish one; the causes and concerns creating the absolute belief that this land is to be sovereign. The Constitution is the rational basis and construction of such Government. This is why God is not mentioned - the Government was NOT to be based on religion. That is different than the Society, culture etc. It is also different than the fact that the Founders believed only good, decent men (Religious God-Fearing) could make this system work. Patrick Henry thought them fools to assume that is who would take power, thus the Bill of Rights.

By the way, The Constitution is greatly constructed out of Common Law which we brought over from England. Common Law is not formed from Christianity as many think since, as I have talked about before, Anglo-Saxon cultures recognized Common Law centuries before they were exposed to Christianity. Check Thomas Jefferson for that belief as well.

I want no man and no Government to tell me how to believe or to tell me that my beliefs are wrong. I intend to do nothing of the sort to any man either. I will certainly discuss the faults I see with organized religion or the hypocrisy involved with believing in an all powerful, omnipotent power who, men believe, a single book can be constructed that teaches of that power.

So, to summarize, as we hear from Politicians so often, my quote was taken out of context. It is in reference to what flag and symbolism to use for this group and in direct reference to the Federal Government which is NOT based on any religion for its framework.
Roy and Matt............great discussion......points up the critical need to restore Constitutional government and Republic principles in America........
"It is my understanding that we are organized here to fight for The Constitution of the United States, which is an entirely secular document."

What do you mean? Interesting over-statement.

Not everyone believes that. And is it "entirely" secular, uncolored by the religious attitudes of men in the 18th C.? (I would like a simple definition since "secular" has become a humanistic anti-biblical term and is used by communists, humanists and evolutionists - all of these undermine the constitution itself if and when they undermine the need for moral law and the accountability to a higher power).

This does not change the fact that an immoral political base and an immoral constituency would and never could maintain the U.S. Constitution's unique and abiding Biblical principles of government, like limited power of rulers for one, and further for the promotion of principle rights for the constituents like the Bill of Rights for all citizens of America, etc.

For instance, the Bill of rights is what is still amazingly holding back the NWO, how wise a piece of legislation it was. The points in that Bill were given to us by baptists, if you study history (and if you do not just accept the history channel for your "encyclopedia.") If you are un-versed in this marvellous set of doctrines you should check out its source, the authors and instigators of it, and educate yourself, the NWO accomplices in education, religion, media and finances will not do this for you!

You will find how the Bill of Rights was added in at the last minute because of some very religious people (and one Baptist minister in particular) with efforts to make the Biblical principles they were living under then, codified, lasting and available to all men who would abide by the constitution, living within its laws..

You see almost every one of these men, the founding fathers, were students of law and the Bible (yes I said, almost), and understood point number one: the corruptibility of the human heart, and correlating to that, the potential for men who enter into public service in the government to be corrupted.

Such a concept is a very Biblical concept. Contrariwise the Humanist Manifestos, the Secular religion of Evolution and doctrines like Survival of the Fittest, of the New Age doctrines of Self-Esteem and the now outdated, practice of permissive parenting, by Dr. Spock, etc. maintain that there is no final judgment or Judge, i.e. no day of accounting beyond this life - and that there is no divine Lawgiver or divine Law which causes men to be blessed.

America was blessed. Is she now? Where is she headed and why? Some of us put two and two together. Morality is the only movement back toward a constitutionally limited government, and in my opinion the only morality that could actually bring about the change we need is the one that teaches there is a Designer who is all wise, can be trusted and wrote out the Handbook of Laws to bless and not to curse, to give a blessed living and make possible honorable and successful governing.

Others have rightly said, America's greatness was because America is good, and the Bible maintains that man is inherently evil and therefore needs governments to be limited, needs separation of powers, needs three branches for justice and equity to balance the powers. These ideas were derived by men who had a fear of God, which King Solomon of old said was the beginning of wisdom.

Secular government should not be opposed to morality, law and/or justice with mercy. The principles of morality, law and justice with mercy are the principles contained emphatically throughout the New Testament which the majority of our founding fathers who signed the Constitution lived by very strictly and many of them preached upon from week to week. Yes many of the original "law men" were men steeped in the Law of God as taught in the Bible.

"What doth the Lord require of thee but to do justly, to love mercy and to walk humbly with thy God?" That is how Amos said it, many years before Jesus arrived and modelled such a lifestyle perfectly.

We should all aspire to such favorable and "good" values. But we must first believe that God is and that He is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him," as did so many of the original founding fathers of this country. Heb. 11:6

None of this should be taken to mean that we believe in initiating a nation wide religion. On the contrary. Each man must be free to make up his own mind about who or what his god will be. However, apart from "good," and sensible religion I maintain, as did most of the Fathers, that freedom will NOT be lasting. That was why they bound up the federal government so carefully with a U.S. Constitution.

Read it again, please in light of the three mentions of God in the Declaration of Independence. These were the same men, with the same spirit and ideals, that meant for the Fed. Govt. to have severely limited powers, for good Bible reasons.
Again, there were 5 mentions of a God or "Supreme Being" in the Declaration of Independence.

"It is my understanding that we are organized here to fight for The Constitution of the United States, which is an entirely secular document." - That means that we are here, organized in this group, for the support and return to The Constitution of the United States. From Merriam Webster - Secular: not overtly or specifically religious That's the definition I go by - that work for you?

Thomas Jefferson dictates in the Declaration that the power of the Government is derived from the Consent of the Governed. This keeps in line with the Magna Carta. This emphasizes that the Government is not, never has been and never should be based on any religious precepts. Their power comes from NOWHERE but the people they govern; unlike the times where a King was believed to have been chosen by God (The religious institutions at this time backed and enforced it). The Constitution is based on common sense, historical knowledge and Common Law (Which is not based on Religious precepts either). I'm not sure what we're arguing here. If you don't believe that Religion has any place in the FedGov, as a basis for law or foundation for a Government Body then we have no quarrel. My point here, is that support of the Constitution does NOT require that I love Jesus or that I fit your preconceptions of a "Christian" or "Jew" or any other religious dogmatic label. You believe your way of thinking is the right way - GREAT! So be it. Welcome to America where we are FREE from Government dictating what, how and who we worship; or even that we worship AT ALL.

These ideals that Government should have no place in or dominion over Religion is spread all throughout the Constitution. One of the prime examples is in Article 6, Section 3 - "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." Our Elected Representatives do NOT have to fit any Religious qualifications in order to serve in the Legislature. Therefore, as the Constitution demands in the Bill of Rights, they have no dominion to legislate in those regards either.

Interestingly enough - the Founding Fathers didn't place Jesus anywhere in the Declaration but referred to "Nature's God" or a "Supreme Being". Not Jesus.

"For rebellion as is the sin of witchcraft." 1 Samuel, 15:23 - Doesn't sound like a doctrine they followed does it? Look at Romans, 13 that I wrote about earlier. Doesn't seem like they followed that one too closely either.

"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose." Thomas Jefferson to Horatio Spafford, March 17, 1814 - Wasn't too fond of the modern church.

"On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind." Thomas Jefferson to Carey, 1816

"It may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and the Civil authority with such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential points. The tendency to unsurpastion on one side or the other, or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them, will be best guarded agst. by an entire abstinence of the Gov't from interfence in any way whatsoever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order, and protecting each sect agst. trespasses on its legal rights by others." James Madison in "James Madison on Religious Liberty"

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." James Madison - letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774

"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity." - John Adams

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" John Adams - letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the Common Law." Thomas Jefferson - letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, 1814

And now, from the Father of our Country - "Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by the difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be depreciated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society." George Washington - letter to Edward Newenham, 1792

So no, don't let the Revisionists tell you different. Our Founding Fathers did very much believe in a Supreme Being, a God of Nature - They, however like many others during the AGE OF ENLIGHTENMENT DURING THE EIGHTEENTH CENTURY - saw MANY problems with established religions, holy doctrine and sects of Christianity which all believed THEIRS was the one true faith.

As we all recognize and admire, these were THINKING men, not men who simply took what they were taught by a teacher, professor or PRIEST or PASTOR and ran with it. They analyzed, thought and contributed. So what part of that characteristic makes you think they just bought Holy Doctrine without ever thinking about it themselves.

I'll say it again, our Government has no place in, dominion over or reason to be run by ANY Religious Ideals. That includes Christianity, Buddhism, Islam or Judaism. NONE have any place in a Nation of LAW. This is why I said, originally, that to place a cross on any symbol of this group would wholly be a mistake. This Nation is meant to be a melting pot, E Pluribus Unum - From Many, One. Not from Many - What I say. We come together for a common purpose and a common belief - The Constitution of The United States. We come together for the belief in a Free Man's right to act, think, live and believe how HE sees fit - whether that includes a God or Not. We do not require it - we only require that he follow the laws we set forth and be willing to fight against a Government that does not follow the very laws it sets forth.

To require otherwise, I believe, is to go against everything this Nation stands for. To put The Constitution of the United States under the dominion of anything than Common Law and Common Sense serving Freedom is unacceptable. The Constitution exists to serve the People, to protect them from Government that would otherwise dictate, not only WHAT they do with their lives but what they think in their own minds. If a person has the mind of one of our Founding Fathers, if that person thinks, analyzes, critiques and questions the world around him to arrive at TRUTH and not the precast ideas fed to him then our Government should have NO authority, based on ANY Religious Dogma, to put a stop to that.
And now we come closer to my point.

"a man who has no belief in anything, will fall for everything" - This does not mean that a man who doesn't buy hook, line and sinker Jesus, The Bible, Christianity (Whatever sect you want to pick) will fall for anything. I believe it is exactly the opposite. A man who grew being taught these things, takes them, reads EVERY OTHER MAJOR RELIGIOUS TEXT, sees correlations and commonalities, thinks for himself and decides what his own relationship with God will be is much less likely to fall for anything than a man who takes what he's told without ever questioning, thinking or analyzing.

I'll say one more time - Common Law did NOT come from Christianity. There is ample historical evidence that shows the evolution and use of Common Law and its principles before the Anglo-Saxon cultures were ever exposed to Christianity. Common Law and the 10 Commandments come from simple, common sense humanity. These are rules and ideals that all humans know are true and can feel the relevance of them to what a Supreme Being would deem "A good person".

People want to believe in Jesus, the resurrection, the divinity of Jesus, his death leading to our salvation - GOOD! More power to you. God bless a Nation that is based on the people's RIGHT to live as they wish.

Christianity IS a religion. A religion is defined most broadly as "a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith". Adherence to and belief in the Constitution is a Religion, technically. The question comes in what leads to Liberty and Individual Liberty and Responsibility. This is one of the main problems with typical Politicians. You always err on the side of Liberty. Politicians err on the side of money and power. The adherence to the Constitution ENHANCES Freedom. Basing the Governmental extension of the Constitution on a RELIGION denies Freedom to countless people.

A Secular Government is EXACTLY what The Constitution requires. NO RELIGION. PURE LAW. A NATION BASED ON LAWS. Sure, the creation of those laws came from Christianity, Buddhism, Enlightened Deism - it came from a lot of intelligent THINKING men who were in the height of the Age of Enlightenment. They questioned the establishment, they questioned the doctrine of Religion which inhibits man instead of freeing him to explore his OWN relationship with God.

That's what I believe - More power to me. Welcome to a Free Country. The point is, I work my ass off, I provide for my family, I love and cherish the woman I've chosen, I defend the Constitution of this land EVERY chance I get and I am preparing for a fight with a MASSIVE entrenched enemy who is steadily destroying that sacred document. But I don't believe the whole story about Jesus so I'm part of the problem? I don't buy that. The God the Forefathers talked about was not the Catholic God, the Baptist God, the Evangelist God, the Mormon God - it was a God who encompassed all those, it was a God of Nature and of Man who is MORE than any religion or man who ever dream of. To think that ANY of us know the Nature of God is egotistical beyond imagination.

But hey, that's just me.

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